About thirty years ago (mid-1980s), I had a conversation with a German and the term Schadenfreude came up.
On a list of a thousand German words to remember or memorize....I'd tend to suggest it's not on that list.
Schadenfreude would be defined as a feeling of joy derived from the misfortune of others.
The original German bringing up this topic (in a going-away party at some German gasthaus for a group of Americans and included a couple of Germans) had gotten me into a dialog about odd German behavior.
Americans always demonstrate odd behavior. We are the folks who get all hyper about 'dry counties' and forbidding alcohol consumption. We are also the folks who seem to be willing to go fight (physically) over some college football match-ups. We are also the folks who get overly dramatic over religious presentations. We are also the ones who get all moral in nature...to elect some pure moralistic soul into some office....only to discover months later that the new guy is pretty immoralistic.
So, Schadenfreude came up. It's probably been around for 2,000 years and likely was a big positive thing a thousand years ago as your village noted the misfortune of the village on the other side of the mountain....thus feeling better over your own situation. Through the years, it evolved. Today, it reaches down into personal situations where you might feel Schadenfreude coming up over your neighbor, your co-worker, or some neighborhood guy. 'They got what they deserved' would be the American translation of what has occurred.
Course, a decade would pass after realizing this phrase and meaning.....then I'd come to Mitfreude, which means joy derived from the joy of others. This is where a German would see some great moment of compassion or joy, and just be overjoyed at the luck or accomplishment of your neighbor, friend, or relative.
In the last year, I came to the third version of this....Mitgefuhl....which typically means that you feel sadness that comes from the sadness of others.
Typically, Mitgefuhl and Mitfreude, don't get brought up much. Schadenfreude probably won't be mentioned much by 99-percent of Germans.....just mostly by intellectuals and journalists trying to explain some detail of German culture.
So, if you are sitting in some German cafe or pub, and someone draws you off into a conversation (typically over a beer discussion, travel, weather, politics, or a German promi), and you hear the phrase of Schadenfreude....it's some catch-phrase for a serious dialog situation, and just let the guy/gal talk at length to get something off their list of frustrations. Don't question them over it....just accept the fact that something is bothering them, and this pub-moment has turned into a bit of a confessional situation.
3 comments:
Hi.
Regarding your post from 2010 which I mentioned earlier, one commentator, named Tristan, claims that Germans tend to derive joy from the misfortune of others more so than other nationality, hence they invented the term Schadenfreude. I frankly do not believe in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, ergo I find this notion to be flawed.
Based on what you experienced with other Germans as a whole, do you agree with such a statement, or do you think it's BS like I do? Thanks.
If you go and take a German language course, particularly the more intense classes....you come to realize one day that Germans....over a historical long period...invent terms or words to explain what they mean. Schadenfreude appears to have been created/passed around at some point between 1525 and mid-1700s. Some folks think during the story-telling era (1700s), that it became a nationally used word.
There's another German word that you might hear on occasion...Schwarmerei. The meaning to this word is a frenzied/over-hyped state of enthusiasm. Typically, you'd use the word to describe some guy/gal who can't control their emotions. The non-German would laugh and state that the passion of Germans is absolute control of emotions, with a rare occasional outburst. The character of 'Spock' from Star Trek would be the perfect example.
As for the joy from misfortune angle....after the demise of the Roman Empire influence, the German path of culture went through evolution. A lot of people lived in small farming communities, and would in some way compete against neighboring communities (in friendly and unfriendly ways). This joy derived from misfortune often came from farming experiments which failed, and the 'smart' guy would talk up the failures of his neighbor, and how he avoided those bad steps.
This attitude of talking over the failures of others, came to the 1700s/1800s where new technology items were being developed. Germans have a driven nature to improve or invent, and this passion didn't prevent failures from occurring and criticism being mounted over their failures (Schadenfreude). There's no doubt that criticism occurs in other countries. It's just that the Germans invented one particular word to fit this one single dynamic for themselves.
I should note here...every year, German invent 20-to-50 new words, and they are quietly added to the national vocabulary. In the past two years, 'Merkeling' was invented. If you ask a German teenager about the word, they laugh. It means that you hold a position of authority/leadership, but are generally prone to make little to no decisions, simply sit by and view things as they happen. Maybe folks do this throughout the US and Europe, but the Germans notice stuff like this, and invent a term for it. I kinda think Schadenfreude went the same direction.
Well, my question was whether you believed in Tristan's claim or not (i.e. that Germans have a monopoly on Schadenfreude). I'll take that as a no. Nevertheless, thanks for the useful info :)
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